Hi Shelia,
Thanks for your very nice description of training dogs. I really
enjoy working with animals and always appreciate getting new ideas
for working with my dogs. Although I have never trained for SAR I
have been training dogs that I own for about 12 years. when I said I
could probably teach my dog in an afternoon I was not trying to play
down the amount of time it takes to train a dog. I am talking about
a 12 yr old AKC utility dog who has been being trained literally
since she was 8 weeks old. She & I literaly have thousands of hours
training together not to mention competing together too. She also
knows agility & has done some field work. I saw this as an extension
of many of the behaviors she already knows. Although she is old she
still has a tremendous amount of drive.
I thought that teaching my younger dogs to find letterboxes might be
an interesting project. They are way less trained than my older dog.
I just haven't put the hours into them that I did with Katie. A lot
of the techniques you describe we use for teaching young dogs to
retrieve birds. I am going to print out your message. I will let
you know how I make out with my project.
Janet
Box detecting dogs -training (LONG)
3 messages in this thread |
Started on 2003-02-09
Re: Box detecting dogs -training (LONG)
From: Janet (moonstone_baby@yahoo.com) |
Date: 2003-02-09 18:31:11 UTC
Box detecting dogs -training (LONG)
From: Sheila Stewart (sheila27@tm.net) |
Date: 2003-02-09 12:52:28 UTC-08:00
Hi all.
As a retired SAR handler with a canine cadaver recovery dog, I think I can
give some insight to this question. The whether or not you want to put the
effort into doing may be another story..LOL.
First you have to determine what it is that you want the dog to find, so
lets say we pick plastic containers in this case. (as a side note we once
had a dog on our team that inadvertently learned to alert on plastic because
the handler always put his scent items in Tupperware..LOL. In his case we
had to start over with training from step one.) What you then do is get 3
or 4 of these plastic containers and then start playing fetch with them.
This works wonderful if your dog is a natural retriever or ball player. The
more crazed they get about the container the better. You know when you have
a really excited dog when as soon as they seen you take down the container
for play that literally go nuts. While you are working on this step, remove
the other fetch toys like balls and so forth. You really want to channel the
dog on the thrill of finding the plastic container.
Once you have a plastic crazy dog that retrieves reliably, start changing
the situation. Hold the dog back and throw the container into deep grass or
snow. Let it fall then let the dog go. Once the dog has found it give lots
of praise and upon brining it back you can even give a food treat reward.
The more and more successful the dog is, up the level of difficulty to small
shrubs, large shrubs, dense woods, etc. Once the dog starts to go get it
reliably and bring it back, start to add a command when you throw the item,
something like seek or go find works great. If at anytime the dog becomes
frustrated or fails to find it be sure and go give assistance. The dog
should always win in these training set ups. Another important thing to
remember is these sessions need to be SHORT ! Usually 15 mins 2-3 times a
day is wonderful. You never want the dog to tire of the "game" and you
always want to leave on a successful training session that has the dog
wanting more.
Once you have a dog that is 95% successful with all of the above, now start
having an assistant take the container and go a distance from you and the
dog and have them yell HEY HEY and then toss it into an area. Let the dog
watch and then give the command for the dog to go find it. Again, escalate
this until the person is hardly visible and the item is only very minimally
seen being tossed. At this point I start playing this game ON LEASH so that
the dog becomes used to playing the game while on leash. Once you get to the
point where the dog "knows" the game and starts looking for something to
happen (container being thrown), you can then have the person just drop it
into the bushes and send the dog to go find it. Do this for a while until
the dog is very successful at finding it, say 95% or better. Always be sure
that you reward the dog with lots of praise and some tasty food treat when
the situation is successful. If ever there is difficulty, or the dog is
having lots of trouble, back up and make things easier. Often times, success
makes us jump ahead too soon and the key to understanding the need to slow
down and back up is seeing unsuccessful attempts.
Now say we have taken our time with training and everything is going
wonderful. at this point we can now start to set up some actual finds. Start
with having your assistant go out and place a container in a hidden area.
Wait a few minutes and then go send the dog. Again, when the dog is
successful reward. At this point most people will want to switch over to
some other type of alert, as most folks probably don't want to have
someone's dog chomping all over their beloved letterbox! The first step to
teaching this is deciding what type of alert you want the dog to give when
the container has been detected. Most common are barking, sitting, and lying
down. Once you decide what alert you want, you need to work separately on
getting the dog to do this behavior on a cue. Once your dog does it 100% of
the time on your cue, then it is time to bring the two behaviors together.
See, I never said this was easy...LOL
The next step is to combine these two behaviors. Take the plastic container
you have been using for the fetch game and now put it in an unreachable
place or container. I used a wooden box with holes drilled in it for scent
to escape. he location or container needs to be dog proof, so that the dog
can't actually get the item, but located so it can easily smell the item.
Once you have placed the plastic item and have it set up, then take the dog
to the area you want to start and give the dog a command. The dog should be
on leash and you need to be sure to be able to keep up..LOL I also recommend
the use of a harness for this (which you can use from the very beginning)
for two reasons: 1) the change from a leash on the collar to a leash on a
harness clues the dog in that it is going to be playing the fun game and 2)
if the leash gets snagged or you fall the dog won't get a correction for
doing what you want him/her to do, which is try it's hardest to find this
container. (Trust me, you get better at following with experience..=)))
While the dog is looking be enthusiastic and encouraging, "that's it what a
great dog you are". Once you get to the location and the dog gets to the
container make a huge deal of it..WOW WHAT'S THAT IS SOMETHING THERE..YOU
GONNA GET IT...etc. The more excited and like a raving idiot you are the
better. Once the dog is geeked and is trying to get into the container, then
give your alert signal (the down, bark, etc) and once the dog does it....
huge praise and lots of treats!!!
Whew..lotta work isn't it!! If you made it this far, you are in like flynn.
At this point you have all the training necessary to be successful and the
next steps are just working the situation in many different areas and in
different conditions. Eventually, the dog will start to offer the alert on
his/her own when the box is found and you won't have to give the cue for it.
Sometimes to I take a special toy that I give the dog as a reward after the
box is found and I use it just like the plastic container in the beginning
steps. I play tug or fetch with it and it tends to redirect the dog's desire
to want to grab the box. As soon as the dog gives the alert on a found
container (one that I know the location of), I then throw and tug with the
other toy as the reward. Only after the dog is rewarded do I then turn my
attention back to the letterbox.
LOL...now what I have given is a brief overview....LOL. You may have other
issues arise as every dog and person is different, but this is a review of
the basics of how scent work and detection is taught. I hope this helps
everyone interested and please feel free to email me with specific
questions. I am happy to help! Also, I would be interested in progress if
anyone does decide to try training this!!
Puppylover and pups
(aka Sheila)
> How do you train dogs to alert on certain scents? I've seen them do
> explosives and narcotics daily on my commute through a nuclear
> submarine base gates...and I'd love to work on "where's the box?"
>
> Jay
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
As a retired SAR handler with a canine cadaver recovery dog, I think I can
give some insight to this question. The whether or not you want to put the
effort into doing may be another story..LOL.
First you have to determine what it is that you want the dog to find, so
lets say we pick plastic containers in this case. (as a side note we once
had a dog on our team that inadvertently learned to alert on plastic because
the handler always put his scent items in Tupperware..LOL. In his case we
had to start over with training from step one.) What you then do is get 3
or 4 of these plastic containers and then start playing fetch with them.
This works wonderful if your dog is a natural retriever or ball player. The
more crazed they get about the container the better. You know when you have
a really excited dog when as soon as they seen you take down the container
for play that literally go nuts. While you are working on this step, remove
the other fetch toys like balls and so forth. You really want to channel the
dog on the thrill of finding the plastic container.
Once you have a plastic crazy dog that retrieves reliably, start changing
the situation. Hold the dog back and throw the container into deep grass or
snow. Let it fall then let the dog go. Once the dog has found it give lots
of praise and upon brining it back you can even give a food treat reward.
The more and more successful the dog is, up the level of difficulty to small
shrubs, large shrubs, dense woods, etc. Once the dog starts to go get it
reliably and bring it back, start to add a command when you throw the item,
something like seek or go find works great. If at anytime the dog becomes
frustrated or fails to find it be sure and go give assistance. The dog
should always win in these training set ups. Another important thing to
remember is these sessions need to be SHORT ! Usually 15 mins 2-3 times a
day is wonderful. You never want the dog to tire of the "game" and you
always want to leave on a successful training session that has the dog
wanting more.
Once you have a dog that is 95% successful with all of the above, now start
having an assistant take the container and go a distance from you and the
dog and have them yell HEY HEY and then toss it into an area. Let the dog
watch and then give the command for the dog to go find it. Again, escalate
this until the person is hardly visible and the item is only very minimally
seen being tossed. At this point I start playing this game ON LEASH so that
the dog becomes used to playing the game while on leash. Once you get to the
point where the dog "knows" the game and starts looking for something to
happen (container being thrown), you can then have the person just drop it
into the bushes and send the dog to go find it. Do this for a while until
the dog is very successful at finding it, say 95% or better. Always be sure
that you reward the dog with lots of praise and some tasty food treat when
the situation is successful. If ever there is difficulty, or the dog is
having lots of trouble, back up and make things easier. Often times, success
makes us jump ahead too soon and the key to understanding the need to slow
down and back up is seeing unsuccessful attempts.
Now say we have taken our time with training and everything is going
wonderful. at this point we can now start to set up some actual finds. Start
with having your assistant go out and place a container in a hidden area.
Wait a few minutes and then go send the dog. Again, when the dog is
successful reward. At this point most people will want to switch over to
some other type of alert, as most folks probably don't want to have
someone's dog chomping all over their beloved letterbox! The first step to
teaching this is deciding what type of alert you want the dog to give when
the container has been detected. Most common are barking, sitting, and lying
down. Once you decide what alert you want, you need to work separately on
getting the dog to do this behavior on a cue. Once your dog does it 100% of
the time on your cue, then it is time to bring the two behaviors together.
See, I never said this was easy...LOL
The next step is to combine these two behaviors. Take the plastic container
you have been using for the fetch game and now put it in an unreachable
place or container. I used a wooden box with holes drilled in it for scent
to escape. he location or container needs to be dog proof, so that the dog
can't actually get the item, but located so it can easily smell the item.
Once you have placed the plastic item and have it set up, then take the dog
to the area you want to start and give the dog a command. The dog should be
on leash and you need to be sure to be able to keep up..LOL I also recommend
the use of a harness for this (which you can use from the very beginning)
for two reasons: 1) the change from a leash on the collar to a leash on a
harness clues the dog in that it is going to be playing the fun game and 2)
if the leash gets snagged or you fall the dog won't get a correction for
doing what you want him/her to do, which is try it's hardest to find this
container. (Trust me, you get better at following with experience..=)))
While the dog is looking be enthusiastic and encouraging, "that's it what a
great dog you are". Once you get to the location and the dog gets to the
container make a huge deal of it..WOW WHAT'S THAT IS SOMETHING THERE..YOU
GONNA GET IT...etc. The more excited and like a raving idiot you are the
better. Once the dog is geeked and is trying to get into the container, then
give your alert signal (the down, bark, etc) and once the dog does it....
huge praise and lots of treats!!!
Whew..lotta work isn't it!! If you made it this far, you are in like flynn.
At this point you have all the training necessary to be successful and the
next steps are just working the situation in many different areas and in
different conditions. Eventually, the dog will start to offer the alert on
his/her own when the box is found and you won't have to give the cue for it.
Sometimes to I take a special toy that I give the dog as a reward after the
box is found and I use it just like the plastic container in the beginning
steps. I play tug or fetch with it and it tends to redirect the dog's desire
to want to grab the box. As soon as the dog gives the alert on a found
container (one that I know the location of), I then throw and tug with the
other toy as the reward. Only after the dog is rewarded do I then turn my
attention back to the letterbox.
LOL...now what I have given is a brief overview....LOL. You may have other
issues arise as every dog and person is different, but this is a review of
the basics of how scent work and detection is taught. I hope this helps
everyone interested and please feel free to email me with specific
questions. I am happy to help! Also, I would be interested in progress if
anyone does decide to try training this!!
Puppylover and pups
(aka Sheila)
> How do you train dogs to alert on certain scents? I've seen them do
> explosives and narcotics daily on my commute through a nuclear
> submarine base gates...and I'd love to work on "where's the box?"
>
> Jay
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Re: [LbNA] Re: Box detecting dogs -training (LONG)
From: Sheila Stewart (sheila27@tm.net) |
Date: 2003-03-08 11:36:55 UTC-08:00
Sorry for the delay in reply..... darn computer!!!!
Having done field training you have a huge jump on training! My oldest
Border Collie used to do pick up work for the hunt tests and it was amazing
how the retrieve drive can be used in so many ways. Truthfully, I think the
more training a dog has the more receptive it makes they to learning new
things and the faster they learn. My old dog, like yours, had the benefit of
all my time and training for many years and I can see the difference with my
younger dogs that had less time put in. The old gal is the rock when it
comes to doing anything and the younger ones as so so. If only I could be
cloned..LOL
Let me know how the training comes along, I would love to know.
All the best,
Sheila (puppylover)
Home of:
Jinx,( Little snookie lumps) STD (D,S), OTD (DS), DSA, Honor Scout, TDI,
PDX, retired SAR
Indy, (the spas matic) DSA, Honor Scout, TDI, PDX, TT
Yetta, (Yetti of the house) DSA, TDI, TT
Lucy,( Hey Ricky sing babaloo for me..) DSA, TT, TDI
Taz, ( enough said...) DSA....working on the rest!
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 10:31 AM
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Box detecting dogs -training (LONG)
> Hi Shelia,
>
> Thanks for your very nice description of training dogs. I really
> enjoy working with animals and always appreciate getting new ideas
> for working with my dogs. Although I have never trained for SAR I
> have been training dogs that I own for about 12 years. when I said I
> could probably teach my dog in an afternoon I was not trying to play
> down the amount of time it takes to train a dog. I am talking about
> a 12 yr old AKC utility dog who has been being trained literally
> since she was 8 weeks old. She & I literaly have thousands of hours
> training together not to mention competing together too. She also
> knows agility & has done some field work. I saw this as an extension
> of many of the behaviors she already knows. Although she is old she
> still has a tremendous amount of drive.
>
> I thought that teaching my younger dogs to find letterboxes might be
> an interesting project. They are way less trained than my older dog.
> I just haven't put the hours into them that I did with Katie. A lot
> of the techniques you describe we use for teaching young dogs to
> retrieve birds. I am going to print out your message. I will let
> you know how I make out with my project.
>
> Janet
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Having done field training you have a huge jump on training! My oldest
Border Collie used to do pick up work for the hunt tests and it was amazing
how the retrieve drive can be used in so many ways. Truthfully, I think the
more training a dog has the more receptive it makes they to learning new
things and the faster they learn. My old dog, like yours, had the benefit of
all my time and training for many years and I can see the difference with my
younger dogs that had less time put in. The old gal is the rock when it
comes to doing anything and the younger ones as so so. If only I could be
cloned..LOL
Let me know how the training comes along, I would love to know.
All the best,
Sheila (puppylover)
Home of:
Jinx,( Little snookie lumps) STD (D,S), OTD (DS), DSA, Honor Scout, TDI,
PDX, retired SAR
Indy, (the spas matic) DSA, Honor Scout, TDI, PDX, TT
Yetta, (Yetti of the house) DSA, TDI, TT
Lucy,( Hey Ricky sing babaloo for me..) DSA, TT, TDI
Taz, ( enough said...) DSA....working on the rest!
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 10:31 AM
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Box detecting dogs -training (LONG)
> Hi Shelia,
>
> Thanks for your very nice description of training dogs. I really
> enjoy working with animals and always appreciate getting new ideas
> for working with my dogs. Although I have never trained for SAR I
> have been training dogs that I own for about 12 years. when I said I
> could probably teach my dog in an afternoon I was not trying to play
> down the amount of time it takes to train a dog. I am talking about
> a 12 yr old AKC utility dog who has been being trained literally
> since she was 8 weeks old. She & I literaly have thousands of hours
> training together not to mention competing together too. She also
> knows agility & has done some field work. I saw this as an extension
> of many of the behaviors she already knows. Although she is old she
> still has a tremendous amount of drive.
>
> I thought that teaching my younger dogs to find letterboxes might be
> an interesting project. They are way less trained than my older dog.
> I just haven't put the hours into them that I did with Katie. A lot
> of the techniques you describe we use for teaching young dogs to
> retrieve birds. I am going to print out your message. I will let
> you know how I make out with my project.
>
> Janet
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>